Early on in her career, Nicki Minaj worked with Big Fendi, the manager who helped navigate her rise into stardom. The pair had a falling out and after years of animosity, they’ve been able to put their differences behind them. Recently, Nicki Minaj joined Big Fendi as a guest on his podcast where they talked about her career. The pair discussed women in rap and Fendi said that Nicki’s success has “made it hard for [brown-skinned rap chicks].”

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“I think brown-skinned chicks got to work a little harder,” Big Fendi added. “You set a bar for brown-skinned chicks to be like—’cause a lotta chicks at that time was like, ‘Oh wow, well, Nicki poppin’ right now. I gotta be at least trying to catch up to look like her somewhat.'” Nicki responded “Really?” a few times before weighing in with a more lengthy reply.

“Well, I will say dark-skinned and brown-skinned women have to work extra harder in any field. Just like how I feel being Black, a Black woman,” Nicki said. “I feel like, if a White woman and me was going into the same job at Wall Street, I feel like I wouldn’t get the job off the rip just because of me being Black, unless I was double and triple times smarter than her or double and triple times better than her. So yes, I do agree with that. Of course, it’s me so I don’t feel like my complexion is the reason why I made it, but I also don’t—I try not to be blind or play dumb to what’s really happening in the world.”

Big Fendi added that he thinks Nicki “came in the game at a time where complexion played a part in a lot of stuff.” He said “everyone was going for the lighter girls” in music videos, as well. Nicki agreed and added that she believes the music world is shifting. “Yes, but I feel like now it’s changing,” said Nicki. “I feel like people now are making it their business to be like ‘melanin’ and that whole trend is very much happening right now, which I love.” Check out their chat in full below.